So, Paul, do you now understand what Jesus did for YOU on that Cross?
Nothing of Himself?

Then said Jesus unto them,
When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am He,
and that I do nothing of Myself;
but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things.

Matthew 8:28

Do you now see the LOVE of Christ on that Cross?
No.
I see that Jesus loved us even before they tried murdering Him.
In fact, I believe that's why they tried to murder Him.

If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love;
even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
John 15:10

 Do you now understand that you did not reconcile yourself to God?
I understand that I repented.

Because Jesus didn't start manifesting Himself to me,
until I turned me to do all the commandments, as He said.

He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them,
he it is that loveth Me:
and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

John 14:21

Do you now see that it was the chastisement that was laid upon the Lord that made us whole and reconciled us to God?
I see that them that believe in the Cross
use that belief as their excuse to not do the commandments, as God commanded in His word.

And they rarely seem to remember to proclaim the kingdom,
and they rarely offer up the Lord's flesh.
(Just sometimes, when they think it justifies their faith.)
But they do like to proclaim that they are reconcile, saved, and hugely faithful.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.

Revelation 3:19

See the LOVE, Paul:
I see you love to see the LORD hanging upon the Cross, in death.

The LORD gave it to me, to never see death.

Verily, verily, I say unto you,
If a man keep My saying, he shall never see death.

John 8:51

You have denied that Christ has ransomed us with His very Life,
I see Jesus of Nazareth did that long before He was crucified,
and that is why He was titled 'the Christ'.

And I ransomed my life also,
to always offer up His flesh, instead of what men teach.

And whosoever will be chief among you,
let him be your servant:
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister,
and to give his life a ransom for many.

Matthew 20:27-28

but think about what He left behind to come to earth and the price He paid with His very Life to reconcile us back to God!
I don't take thought for raiment.

I rather keep only Jesus' saying, instead.
(For He is my Saviour Love)

And why take ye thought for raiment?
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow;
they toil not, neither do they spin:
And yet I say unto you,
That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Wherefore,
if God so clothe the grass of the field,
which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven,
shall He not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 6:28-30

He took the iniquity of us all onto Himself to save us from going to HELL!
So all the believers in the Cross say,
yet Jesus said we must keep and teach even the least commandment of the law.

And I rather believe Jesus.
(Even if them that gave us His words won't.)

Whosoever therefore
shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19

How dare you act so arrogant and pompous and think you reconciled yourself back to God. 
I believe God wants you to repent too.
before you perish.

But if you don't want to,
just accuse them who show you what He said,
and wave the Cross at them.

Turn you at My reproof:
behold, I will pour out My spirit unto you,
I will make known My words unto you.

Proverbs 1:23

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9

The Law is the schoolmaster to make us aware of just how sinful we are.....and our need of a Savior!
The schoolchildren confess, they have forsaken their schoolmaster.

For the sake of believing in the Cross, as men say to.

Hear, O heavens,
and give ear, O earth:
for the LORD hath spoken,
I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against Me.

Isaiah 1:2

They that forsake the law praise the wicked:
but such as keep the law contend with them.

Proverbs 28:4

The Law did its job in my life and brought me to my knees in repentance and in search for God Himself!
And now they have either forgotten what the law said,
or simply disobey it.

And it shall be with him,
and he shall read therein all the days of his life:
that he may learn to fear the LORD his God,
to keep all the words of this law
and these statutes,
to do them:

Deuteronomy 17:19

I now KNOW Jesus IS my Lord and my Savior!!
I don't re-hang my Saviour on the Cross.

I prefer to keep His words,
and offer them to His sheep, as He commanded.

Jesus answered and said unto him,
If a man love me, he will keep My words:
and My Father will love him,
and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.

John 14:23

Well, they say they are His sheep,
but then they scourge me with their tongue in their forums,
just for confessing His words before them.

Praise Jesus Heart Throb

If ye love Me,
keep My commandments.
John 14:15



Midgie do you think comingfrom knows what the word "repentance" means?
Those that keep the commandments are in the promised land.
But this an hard thing for them who trusted in the Cross, and a CHURCH, to believe.

But if they repented to keep the commandments,
then they would rejoice also.

All the commandments which I command thee this day shall
ye observe to do,
that ye may live,
and multiply,
and go in and possess the land
which the LORD sware unto your fathers.

Deuteronomy 8:1

I know those that repented, offer up His flesh, Heart Throb
and praise.
For He commanded it.

Blessed are they that do His commandments, 
that they may have right to the tree of life, 
and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:14


Garee
believe both Paul and yourself are following a gospel of works, of self righteousness that is not entirely dependant after the words of Christ and therefore not the true gospel, and both would come under the teaching in Mathew 7 where Christ says depart form me, I never knew you, as if we could add something we could do to His finished work which of itself provided all the fullness of His grace necessary for us to enter heaven as white as snow without spot or blemish .
Garee pronounces himself to be as white as snow without spot or blemish,
without having done any of the works, which the LORD commanded.

You didn't even have to believe the person who told you that saying you now offer us, Garee?

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
Cleanse your hands, ye sinners;
and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James 4:8

The power of the cross is made to no effect through the many Catholic additions coming from the oral traditions of their Bishops.
Thank Garee, the Cross is re-empowered by Garee.

Do we need to keep your saying now? smiley: happy

And he that overcometh,
and keepeth My works unto the end,
to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelations 2:26

Rather than His work actually effectually paying for the full wages of sin (every one) which is eternal in nature, coming from the fullness of His grace (100%) Catholic teach is was only a down payment that must be accompanied by their good works.

Instead of His work of faith coming as a labor of His love providing 100% of the grace needed to pay the eternal wage of sin, the work that Christ provided becomes an unknown amount perhaps 17% for one person as a down payment, while His grace provided 100 % for our dear sister in the Lord, Mary, as if God was a respecter of person..

So the power of the cross becomes to them a unknown portion of what is needed to enter heaven and must be made up as the final payment in a place called purgatory which is another unknown factor as to length of time or severity of the suffering that one must do to make themselves clean enough to enter.. and therefore preach another gospel, other than the gospel Christ preaches.

And so what?
One has to wave the Cross around, like it's a magic wand now?

Or tell us,
how you acquire the power from the Cross.

(Meanwhile, I'll keep showing you what my friend Jesus said. smiley: happy)

Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto My Father.

John 14:12

Paul on the other hand seems to have developed his own purgatory doctrine where the suffering comes in as he attempts to fulfill the requirement of Old testament ceremonial laws which were already (past tense) fulfilled at the cross and are identified by the law of God as weak and useless in light of Christ's fulfillment of them. But Christians are the freed men and not in bondage to ceremonial laws as if keeping them is ones own purgatory.
I know.
Christians are freed from having to hearken unto what God's word says,
and do His law.

But that's why I chose NOT to be a Christian, Garee. Friend
I rather do what God's word says, than what Christians reckon.

(It's much more delightful, for me, showing Christians what their LORD said. smiley: happy
Even if they cannot believe His word.)

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen,
and repent, and do the first works;
or else I will come unto thee quickly,
and will remove thy candlestick out of His place,
except thou repent.

Revelation 2:5

Galatians 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elementswhereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
One single misinterpreted saying from St Paul, is all it takes,
for them to dismiss all that God's word says, in His law,
and to confirm to themself, that they are already as pure as the driven snow.
Friend

Man, it is so easy to enter into the kingdom,
isn't it?

Then said one unto Him, Lord, are there few that be saved?
And He said unto them,

Strive to enter in at the strait gate:
for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in,
and shall not be able.

Luke 13:23-24

Aren't the rivers awesome. Smitten

For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; 
but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Galations 6:13



garee what you believe was never taught by Jesus or the Apostles. You make things up as you go.
Like you, he rather believes on what some men say.

Because neither of you are offering up Jesus's commandments, to teach them.
As He said to.

But both Garee and you Catholics are offering up your excuses why you have forsaken the law.
In spite of what God's word says.
(Not to mention, your accusations.)

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing
or else excusing one another

Romans 2:14-15

Heart Throb

For I give you good doctrine, 
forsake ye not My law.
Proverbs 4:2



Exactly what weak and beggarly elements are you referring to, Garee? 
God's words,
(but just not those sayings of St Paul,
which Christians believe he was saying, God's word and law ended.)

Jesus answered and said unto them,
Ye do err,
not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 22:29

Heart

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, 
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:13


garee must be on drugs...
Those that speak like this are drunk.

Or they would offered up a sound reproof by Jesus' flesh,
if they believed Him.

Awake, ye drunkards, and weep;
and howl, all ye drinkers of wine,
because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

Joel 1:5

he wrote on the OSAS thread quote- I am not ashamed of my church then he comes here and starts blaming others for not believing what he believes. 
And if you still can't speak to what he just wrote,
dredge something up that he wrote elsewhere.

Just to pierce him.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen,
how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:20

I am still waiting for him to provide us with OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS FROM his CHURCH"S teaching on embryonic stem cell research.
Why don't you love him as Jesus love us, instead?

... even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
John 15:10

HeartHeartHeart

Circumcision is nothing, 
and uncircumcision is nothing, 
but the keeping of the commandments of God
1 Corinthians 7:19


I think Garee had to run and google "weak and beggarly elements" because he quotes Scripture having NO clue what it means!
Is that why you offer none?

Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God,
and keep His charge, and His statutes, and His judgments, and His commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:1

Bless the LORD Heart Throb
`Paul

That her heart be not lifted up above her brethren, 
and that she turn not aside from the commandment, 
to the right hand, or to the left: 
to the end that she may prolong her days in His kingdom, 
she, and her children, 
in the midst of Israel.
Deuteronomy 17:19

Angelic

Last Edited By: comingfrom Nov 2 12 1:26 AM. Edited 1 times.