Had2 wrote:
Rich since you claim you were once a Catholic, show us where the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches one must succumb to Rome and the Pope to belong to Jesus Christ?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774–776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780).

The Catholic Church, always like herself, constant and uniform in her doctrine, and always preserving the "words once put in her mouth" by her Divine Master, at all times and in all ages, has believed and taught the same doctrine, as a truth revealed by God, that "out of the true Church of Christ, and without His true Faith, there is no possibility of salvation;" and the most authentic public testimony of her enemies themselves, gives proof that this doctrine is the doctrine of Jesus, and of His Holy Gospel, whatsoever private persons, for selfish and interested views, may say to the contrary. Neither is she afraid of being thought uncharitable on this account.

It is (absolutely speaking) POSSIBLE for God to save men by any means He pleases; and He could have saved all mankind through the merits of any one thing that Jesus Christ did or suffered, without requiring such a severe sacrifice from Him as His death upon the Cross. But whatever God CAN do in this respect, is nothing to our purpose; the great question for us is to know what He HAS done. Now, we have seen above, from the whole tenor of revelation, that God has appointed true Faith in Jesus Christ, and the being a member of His Church, as conditions of salvation.

"Whoever is separated from this Catholic Church, by this single sin of being separated from the unity of Christ, no matter how estimable a life he may imagine he is living, shall not have life, but the wrath of God rests upon him" (Augustine, Letters, 141:5).

Lactantius

"It is, therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this, the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. . . . Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known that this is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance and which takes a health-promoting care of the sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject" (Divine Institutes 4:30:11–13 [A.D. 307]). 

 

This was not true until 1965  "The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church "(CCC 847).


Unless truth contradicts truth, what they believed in the early church is what they also believe today by default. Or else truth is not truth!





“It is a necessary basic assumption of biblical interpretation that attention to the plain meaning of the text is the door to healthy understanding of the Bible.” (Paul S.Karleen Ph.D.)

Last Edited By: RichWh1 Dec 20 13 2:36 PM. Edited 2 times.