ICB,

Earlier in the thread you claimed there was a break in Apostolic Succession because there was a Pope Alexander IV, but no Alexander V; and a Pope John XV but no Pope John XVI; and a Pope John XIX but no Pope John XX.

You are making a serious logical error.

1) It doesn't matter if the numbered names are successive or not, but only that the popes holding office are successive.

2) A man claimed to be Pope Alexander V in 1409, but was actually an anti-pope known to lead what was called the "Pisan Obedience". He died in 1410. The next pope to use his name, Alexander VI, deliberately skipped the number 'V' to avoid confusion.

3) John XVI was also an anti-pope. He was Greek by the way. The real pope, Gregory, was earlier forced into exile by the machinations of the Roman dictator Crecentius II, whom John XVI worked out a deal with. It was the Greek envoy who pushed him to seize the papal throne through a phony election. Again, the Greeks.

4) There was no John XX, but there was a Pope John XXI. Why? Simple. Look at all those who claimed to be popes named John from the beginning of the Church until modern times and you'll find a total of 24. Of those, going back through the list, we see the following: #23 was an anti-pope called John XXIII (1410-1415), #17 John XVI (997-998), and #8 John - named John but with no number ever used apparently - (who was anti-pope for a few days in January 844). Thus, the numbering makes perfect sense. The number XX was passed over to make an allowance for the brief stay of the anti-pope John (844). After that the only oddity is that there were two men who took the title John XXIII. The reason why Cardinal Roncalli was able to take the number that had already been claimed by an anti-pope was simply that that anti-pope was all but forgotten and modern communications and the 450 years that had passed ruled out any possibility of confusion. The anti-pope John XXIII was a fascinating character. He was one of two contemporary anti-popes. He was maligned by all sides, betrayed by his allies and friends and forced to renounce his claims. He was condemned by the council of Constance and he kept his promise to never appeal or speak against his condemnation even though it was unjust no matter how necessary to resolve the Great Schism of the West. He was briefly kept in confinement by the Germans, bought his freedom, and did something very noble: he returned to Italy, made his odebience to Pope Martin V and was named a cardinal bishop for his loyalty and humility. He was so respected by the Church for his complete support that he was given a singular honor when he passed away - his tomb was allowed to be decorated with the papal insignia even though he had never been pope! I got to see his tomb in Florence. It's simple, but beautifully done early Renaissance sculpture. Quite moving when you know his whole story.