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Posts: 1275
Member Since: 04/26/08
Apr 15 09 4:28 PM
Stay away from the near occasion to sin
Posts: 760
Member Since: 11/27/07
Apr 15 09 5:54 PM
Posts: 17181
Member Since: 12/03/06
Apr 15 09 6:19 PM
What are some things, without getting too personal, that we can nail to the cross once and for all?
Apr 16 09 11:37 AM
garee wrote: What are some things, without getting too personal, that we can nail to the cross once and for all? Because the work of Christ, which provided the grace of Christ, was once for all and He exclaimed it is finished, as a signal to the end of that work. Without getting to personnel, I believe He has nailed my sin, not in part but the whole, as a free gift but as far as crosses go, to my daily cross I would nail, it is finished ...to remind myself where I receive the strength to carry it, as I hope to follow Him.
Apr 17 09 4:05 AM
Hi Jim,
Jim wrote; A) Christ exclaiming "It is finished" was with regards to the passover meal, after He drank the fourth cup. The work for redemption was not complete until He was raised for our justification. (Romans 4:25) B) I like that idea of nailing "it is finished" to our daily cross as a reminder of the work that He is completing in us, though.
I personally could accept that, as a valid opinion, if Christ exclaimed: "it is not finished". But one, Christ cannot lie, and two it would be impossible for the blood of bulls, lambs and of goats to take away one sin, let alone every sin, in accordance to the righteous demands of the perfect/complete, law of God.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Heb 10:4
When He said it is finished, He was referring to His perfect/completed work of faith, which was the actual "substance" needed to pay the full wage of our sin. Up until this reformation, tokens were used as shadows and types that anticipated the actual payment in full.
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Heb 10:5
B) I like that idea of nailing "it is finished" to our daily cross as a reminder of the work that He is completing in us, though.
Thanks, but I was referring His own grace, that came directly from His own finished work, as the lamb slain for our sin from before the foundation of the world, which was given us in Christ Jesus, before the world began, which He has completed (He conquered death, the "final" enemy) as that which, as new creatures, indicates we have passed from death to eternal life, as a result of His "own" grace (not of ourselves in any way shape or form) …. not according to our work, of daily picking up our cross, as new creatures.
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:9
Apr 17 09 5:55 AM
Apr 17 09 8:35 AM
How in the world do you know what "it" meant in "it is finished"? There is a whole host of options.
Why would you purposely ignore the Romans 4:25 verse?
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
How many times was He delivered for our offences, by the work He performed ,of the Spirit before..... by an act of God ,God declared men free from guilt and acceptable to Him.(Justification) Remember the tokens used to show a dead body point to a finished work, just as the lamb in the Old Testament anticipated this finished work. Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Apr 17 09 8:58 AM
Apr 17 09 11:59 AM
Posts: 835
Member Since: 01/11/07
Apr 17 09 12:24 PM
Catholic sprout
Radar2007 wrote: You can tell them over and over again what we really believe, and they remain stuck in their same prejudiced beliefs about what we believe. Radar
I thank God for my life, and for the stars and stripes. May freedom forever fly. Let it ring. Salute the ones who died. The ones that give their lives. So we don't have to sacrifice all the things we love.
Apr 17 09 12:52 PM
The RCC has ALWAYS taught that the mass offers the SAME sacrifice that was made 2000 years ago.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
It's conveninet to lie about people; but it's not right, and the golden rule and the eight commandment get lost in the dust.
You have a right to our opinion as well as I do, but it is finished ,does not mean, it will be finished .The Old Testment tokens that foreshaddowed the substance, used to anticipate the finished work became the substance, as a finished work, as do the real bread and real blood of Grapes speak they have been ,once finished. The completed work was once for all, and does not change that fact to, all time, for once time. Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Apr 17 09 3:14 PM
Radar2007 wrote: Fundamentalists seem to think we show up at each Mass with hammer, nails and a cross, and that Christ appears to be crucified again. Their claims don't even make sense. You can tell them over and over again what we really believe, and they remain stuck in their same prejudiced beliefs about what we believe. That's why I stopped posting on anti-Catholic boards, and why I don't waste my time with garee. He's stuck in his prejudice, and that will never change until he, and they, open their minds enough to actually learn what we really believe instead of claiming they know what we believe. Radar
Apr 17 09 3:18 PM
garee wrote: The RCC has ALWAYS taught that the mass offers the SAME sacrifice that was made 2000 years ago. Can't offer a sacrifice ,again... that already is finished and accepted, remember the real bread and real blood of grapes, show/shew a dead body, with no possible spirit life . 1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. It's conveninet to lie about people; but it's not right, and the golden rule and the eight commandment get lost in the dust. You have a right to our opinion as well as I do, but it is finished ,does not mean, it will be finished .The Old Testment tokens that foreshaddowed the substance, used to anticipate the finished work became the substance, as a finished work, as do the real bread and real blood of Grapes speak they have been ,once finished. The completed work was once for all, and does not change that fact to, all time, for once time. Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Apr 17 09 8:46 PM
Look at how you just steamrollered over Romans 4:25 and kept on blabbing.
We are talking about the word "finished", I believe …used 42 times through scripture as….. 5055 teleo {tel-eh'-o} from 5056; TDNT - 8:57,1161; v
AV - finish 8, fulfil 7, accomplish 4, pay 2, perform 1, expire 1, misc 3; 26
1) to bring to a close, to finish, to end 1a) passed, finished 2) to perform, execute, complete, fulfil, (so that the thing done corresponds to what has been said, the order, command etc.) 2a) with special reference to the subject matter, to carry out the contents of a command 2b) with reference also to the form, to do just as commanded, and generally involving the notion of time, to perform the last act which completes a process, to accomplish, fulfil 3) to pay 3a) of tribute ++++ "It is finished or paid" John 19:30
Christ satisfied God's justice by dying for all to pay for the sins of the elect. These sins can never be punished again since that would violate God's justice. Sins can only be punished once, either by a substitute or by yourself.
(1) The phase, it is finished... does not mean He is continually being delivered over and over exposes Him to public shame for our offences, the word was delivered, denotes an action as past, as in finished. (2) The word and directs our attention to another point regarding the result of being delivered over for our offences. (3) Again the word was denotes another action as finished, and this time not in regard of being delivered over as a work of His faith but an act describing what the work accomplished.
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Rom 4:25
1347 dikaiosis {dik-ah'-yo-sis}
from 1344; TDNT - 2:223,168; n f
AV - justification 2; 2 the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him 2) abjuring to be righteous, justification
You know I have millions of verses to make my case.
A million will not be necessary, just show the "one" needed that changes the word finished, to not finished, and the word have, to have not.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Apr 18 09 6:11 AM
Apr 18 09 9:36 AM
What did HE mean by "it"? What was HE thinking when He said "it" is finished?
premise 2: Justification is part of His work of redemption.
Knowing the Spirit of Christ alone is the just and the justifier, justification is a direct result of the finished work, the grace which was a direct reward of that work, is not of ourselves lest any man boast they contributed to it. Justification is a indication, the work iwe are justified by is completly, perfectly finished.
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom 3:26
I can agree that the physical suffering portion of His work for our redemption was completed to a significant degree, if not completely, on the cross at the point that He said that.
We have a difference in opinion regarding the question does the flesh profits anything or not. I believe it was not a physical work, but rather the spiritual sufferings of having the sins of the entire world laid on him that is salvafic. -
The physical sufferings, I believe, were the result of crimes committed by a Satan inspired mob. To make this suffering in any way payment for our sins would be to give Satan and his agencies a part in providing our salvation. It makes our salvation dependent on a crime, and thus to some degree (however slight) on the criminals who committed the crime.
The suffering that I would say would be understood, as the shedding of blood, a term that mean, the giving the of Spirit life,as the life of the flesh(Spirit life) is in the blood and is not of physical blood.
Hebrews speaks directly to this matter.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Heb 9:22
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Member Since: 05/18/08
Apr 18 09 3:55 PM
Illegal DRUG USER
leaving our sins at the cross
Is there any area, in honor of Christ and His sacrifice, that anyone else might be trying to allow the grace of God to work?
Then said Jesus unto His disciples, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. Matthew 16:24
Apr 18 09 5:32 PM
Apr 18 09 6:46 PM
comingfrom, you're being way too literal.
But I loved your last two statements. "Deny ourselves to follow Jesus in every way Jesus is the resurrection and the life" Amen!
For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among His people. Leviticus 23:29 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. Matthew 12:8
Apr 21 09 8:05 AM
garee wrote: The RCC has ALWAYS taught that the mass offers the SAME sacrifice that was made 2000 years ago. Can't offer a sacrifice ,again... that already is finished and accepted, remember the real bread and real blood of grapes, show/shew a dead body, with no possible spirit life . 1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
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