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Posts: 17181
Member Since: 12/03/06
Apr 21 09 9:21 AM
Garee, you're right, I meant to say that the mass re-presents the same sacrifice, that already took place.
The tokens used as a reminder of this dead body, void of Spirit life, shows a finished work and a dead body cannot not re-present this work again, as a shadow that points to a substance that can give life.
Remember the blood used in those shadows and Old Testament types could never remove one sin, let alone a life time of sin(all).
Remember, the Passover sacrifice was not complete until the lamb was consumed. With fundamentalists, there is no consuming of The Lamb.
Dead lambs cannot give life ,any more than the blood of grapes removed from the vine (source of life)
The Spirit life, that profited, as the wages of sin, that was perfectly/completely given before the blood was poured out into the ground, and was covered by dust used represent the finished work, as returning to the dust from where it was formed, showing it profited nothing.
Remember Spirit life, was in the blood before the work was finished, but spirit life is not blood, but is spirit. Flesh and blood will not inherit, spirit life, as spirit gives birth to spirit and flesh profits nothing.
The dead body of Christ, which shows spirit life was given, using the tokens (real bread and real blood of grapes)were not given before spirit life was finished doing its work.
Genesis nine, clearly shows the difference between spirit life and the blood used to represent it. Blod with life in it represents a living Spirit while blood with no spirit life represents a finished work of the Spirit that give it life.
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. Gen 9:4
Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. Lev 17:12
And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar. Exo 29:12
As far as consummating the fact, as the end of matter, that we, as the bride of Christ, by the tokens used point to the wedding supper, when we will also eat of the flesh of horses, flesh of Kings and mighty men and the flesh of all men, will show themselves, as a result of "one" finished work, as promised in three days.
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Posts: 760
Member Since: 11/27/07
Apr 21 09 11:31 AM
Apr 21 09 11:33 AM
Apr 21 09 5:04 PM
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Does it offend you, that the work our living God, Christ Jesus did was spiritual in nature and not of the flesh Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Apr 21 09 6:46 PM
Posts: 5497
Member Since: 12/28/05
Apr 21 09 7:50 PM
Ishtar Buster
Exodus 12:7-11 (King James Version) 7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof. 10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire. 11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover
Apr 22 09 4:23 AM
Dead lambs cannot give life ,..." so all of the above was just an option?, a suggestion?
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Old Testament shadows and types cannot (impossible) give spirit life either, but can be used a parable pointing forward, towards the lamb of God, who alone is Holy and actually does take away all the sins of the world.
.We receive our holiness from Him who alone is our Holy Father, not a Lamb , Bullock or a corruptible wafer, incased in corruptible silver and gold, made by human hands.
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear forsomuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 1Peter 1
David under the inspiration, of the Spirit of Christ, who finished all the work, as the lamb of God, making it possible for us to enter heaven as white as snow, declared the proper loosening binding principle (us-ward) as a witness that our living God, Christ Jesus is not served by human hands, or types and shadows that were used on the other side of the first century reformation.
Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. Psa 40:4
Apr 22 09 6:22 AM
Apr 22 09 12:59 PM
The OT Passover was a shadow and type (or whatever fancy words the theologians use) of Christ the real deal; but they were still required to eat it, in obedience to God.
Yes, I believe, just as we are required to be baptized in water (h2o), as a law , which "after shadows" the baptism of fire ,Christ went through for our sins and finished that work. But water( h2o) has no salavic function, or another, women are required to cover their heads as a token, to show angels, they hear the commandment of God, as a proper order of the government, in the body.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Don't EVER EVER EVER belittle Jesus's flesh again
Belittle His flesh? Why would I belittle His flesh? ......by it He demonstrated His love, as finished spiritual work, by putting His Spirit life in jeapordy for our sins, that action is described throughout scripture as shedding blood, as eating blood or as drinking blood ,but is used as a parable. All Parables have two functions
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Apr 22 09 6:04 PM
Posts: 6098
Member Since: 05/18/08
Apr 22 09 10:37 PM
Illegal DRUG USER
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Revelation 7:16-17
Apr 23 09 6:29 AM
Apr 23 09 6:41 PM
How's the family, job, etc.? What CDs/DVDs are you enjoying these days.
The Bible with The Catholic Church's guidance is a mere opinion/heresy as that which forms its sect, to have the faith of Christ in respect to Peter or any man is to break the first commandment…. making the second they who bow down and they that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
Apr 23 09 10:36 PM
Apr 24 09 8:27 AM
garee wrote: How's the family, job, etc.? What CDs/DVDs are you enjoying these days. Family is doing O.K. new challenges every day bring new opportunities, how them boys doing The Bible without The Catholic Church's guidance is to commit intellectual suicide. The Bible with The Catholic Church's guidance is a mere opinion/heresy as that which forms its sect, to have the faith of Christ in respect to Peter or any man is to break the first commandment…. making the second they who bow down and they that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
Apr 24 09 8:28 AM
Apr 24 09 8:58 PM
Garee, you're right, I meant to say that the mass re-presents the same sacrifice, that already took place. Thus in merely re-presenting it, it is not re-sacrficing Him. But we do partake of that one sacrifice, in The Eucharist.
Remember, the passover sacrifice was not complete until the lamb was consumed. With fundamentalists, there is no consuming of The Lamb.
Fight it out with God, Garee. He's the one who said to eat the lamb:
And Jesus was the one Who said if we do not eat His flesh and drink His blood we cannot have eternal life:
Case closed.
Per the verses you gave, Christ's blood does wash our sins away, and per the rest of the NT we are required to eat His flesh and drink His blood. His flesh isn't spiritual and His blood isn't spritual. If it was, He never would have had to come and die for us.
God loves matter (material things). We are made of matter, He became matter, He used matter (mud) to heal a man's eyes. Matter and flesh are GOOD things. God created them and said "they are good". When John 6 says "the flesh counts for nothing" it is referring to our carnal nature, not our flesh itself. "The flesh" was a Hebrew idiom for "the non-spirtual carnal nature".
Flesh is good. It was made by, and for, God. Period. Don't EVER EVER EVER criticize the flesh again. Don't EVER EVER EVER belittle Jesus's flesh again.
So anyways, God wants you to be a Catholic, and to try and interpret The Bible without The Catholic Church's guidance is to commit intellectual suicide.
Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Isaiah 8:12
Apr 24 09 9:19 PM
Regarding The Catholic Church, the starting base is to respect that they canonized The Bible at the councils of Hippo and Carthage. So, if we accept their authority for that, then doesn't our logic need to be a little bit more consistent?
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, My flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them. Ezekiel 34:2-6
Apr 25 09 8:01 AM
If we do not except the authority of the logic we use, in respect to the men that God used to bring His "work of faith", as it is written, to our ears, why would we accept the authority of those who, by the same spirit of faith, assembled these books, which in our case is of a different heresy, to begin with? Interpretations always follow, the same loosening and binding law, that come from Heaven to us-ward. To have the "faith of Christ", in respect to men God moves, as you have suggested..."councils of Hippo and Carthage", according to His purposes ,is another law which seems to want for some reason to give that which we can only receive from God, to the men He moves to bring it. That kind of gospel would be of another authority, it would provide another master of authority, another Holy infallible Father, other than the word of God and we know that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. Holy men were moved in either case to hear the word, as the lone authority of God, which effectually works also in us that are given the faith believe God, as a gift of God (not of the church). Seeing He alone is the author of our faith, He alone can be the finisher of the same work.
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.1Th 2:13Garee, glad you and your family are doing OK. I was saying my prayers while taking a walk at work today, and I remembered you and your family.
glad you and your family are doing OK. I was saying my prayers while taking a walk at work today, and I remembered you and your family.
Thanks, sounds like you are a good Dad, with a quiver full, I come from a family of eleven.
Apr 25 09 9:13 AM
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