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Posts: 17181
Member Since: 12/03/06
Apr 25 09 9:35 AM
Guys, we disagree on everything. All we can do is a court case with facts, evidence, and logic.
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 2Co 4:13
Posts: 760
Member Since: 11/27/07
Apr 26 09 3:27 PM
garee wrote: Guys, we disagree on everything. All we can do is a court case with facts, evidence, and logic. We reason by Christ's work of faith..... alone, as far as an opinion in respect to that particular, work of faith (Holy Bible), by our brother in the Lord ,Peter, I know of no such infallible work. Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: If it was Peter who began this good work in us, we could look to his opinion as law, but it is not of Peter.... but is of Christ, the rock of our salvation.Because He cannot lie, we run to Him as our city of refuge , the New Jerusalem the mother of us all. We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 2Co 4:13
Apr 26 09 4:57 PM
There is not one Catholic teaching or person that ever said Peter began the good work in us, and not Christ.
Is Peter included or excluded in the term, "every man" or does he not fall short of the glory of "let god be true"?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
If God is not a respecter of persons and Peter does not rise above the term "every man", why would we trust his unknown opinion, which can only come from rightly dividing, Christ's words of truth, as the fruit of Peter's labor, which some call infallible? As your brother who is also working on his own imperfections, Garee
Posts: 6098
Member Since: 05/18/08
Apr 26 09 7:47 PM
Illegal DRUG USER
FACT: All the early church believed Christ appointed Peter and his successors, whether they call them pope just then, or not. EVIDENCE: Just read any early writings that touch on the subject. LOGIC: God would not leave us to be arguing like this instead of be out doing His will; plus He wants unity, and would therefore provide a much better way than sola scriptura.
But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated Me without a cause. John 15:25
Apr 26 09 8:04 PM
Apr 26 09 8:07 PM
comingfrom wrote: Aren't we suppose to believe Jesus, Jim? And aren't you supposed to preach that? FACT: All the early church believed Christ appointed Peter and his successors, whether they call them pope just then, or not. EVIDENCE: Just read any early writings that touch on the subject. LOGIC: God would not leave us to be arguing like this instead of be out doing His will; plus He wants unity, and would therefore provide a much better way than sola scriptura. CONCLUSION: Don't believe Jesus, nor the scriptures, and believe on the early Church (the ECFs), and on the modern Church. I went one step further back, and seeked out all the books of the Acts of all the Apostles of Jesus, and found out why the ECFs left them out of the canon. Boy, you won't believe just how much the ECFs hated Jesus `Paul But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated Me without a cause. John 15:25
I can never tell if you're sincere or joking, so why don't you get rid ot that dumbass location, and start taliking like aman, for once.
Jim
Apr 27 09 4:41 AM
I agree with that; but our claim is not that Peter is infallible, only that statements made ex cathedra are infallible.
(Commentary) made ex cathedra ,which we do not have to start with, would be the same spirit of faith, as it is written, by which you believe God. The fact that you must believe that the Pope, is the visible head of all Christians, as a law unto yourselves, comparing yourself to yourself, means those who do not believe in a visible head speaks enough to this issue.There cannot be a law that does not apply to what make unity of a mutual faith, not of ourselves lest any man, including Peter, boast. Scripture speaks the opposite and speaks of an invisible head, as it was before the Old Testament apostate Jews rejected God as their invisible head, and desired a pagan system with Kings and Queens, before the reformation in the first century, and God gave them over to the lusts of the flesh, to do what should of not been done. 1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
Apr 27 09 5:28 AM
garee wrote: I agree with that; but our claim is not that Peter is infallible, only that statements made ex cathedra are infallible. The statements made ex cathedra are infallible, same difference, it is those statements that we are discussing in respect to Romans 3. In other words Peter cannot lie or error, when rightly dividing God's revelations. The thoughts and intentions that are taken from studying and comparing the spiritual to the spiritual, are identical to God's intents, which ultimately would make Peter, like God , or a daysman that is described in Job, as an infallible umpire who has a infallible interpretation with no possibility of error, and putting ones faith in Peter's statements... (Commentary) made ex cathedra ,which we do not have to start with, would be the same spirit of faith, as it is written, by which you believe God. The fact that you must believe that the Pope, is the visible head of all Christians, as a law unto yourselves, comparing yourself to yourself, means those who do not believe in a visible head speaks enough to this issue.There cannot be a law that does not apply to what make unity of a mutual faith, not of ourselves lest any man, including Peter, boast. Scripture speaks the opposite and speaks of an invisible head, as it was before the Old Testament apostate Jews rejected God as their invisible head, and desired a pagan system with Kings and Queens, before the reformation in the first century, and God gave them over to the lusts of the flesh, to do what should of not been done. 1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
Apr 27 09 7:41 AM
A few questions: 1) In John 20/21, Jesus told Peter "feed my lambs, feed my sheep, etc." Was Peter invisible at the time He said that?
Was the authority needed to effect that work of faith, and carry it out to its end, visible?
Did He say feed your lambs, in respect to Peter , or did He say His lambs, in respect to His invisible work in Peter?
Since His lambs hear His voice and not Peters, as a daysman , what food, of whose will, was Peter to feed these lambs...... commandments of men by the traditions of men, as another authorty, another master, another gospel?
2) In Matthew 23:1-2, Jesus said to do what the Pharisees say, because they sit in Moses' seat. WEre the Pharisees invisible?
First we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, second authority does not come from imamate objects. That kind of worship would constitute idol worship. The seat of Moses, who was used as a type of Christ, representing the law of God, speaks of the faith that comes from hearing God, not the Pharisees who would read the word of God, but not do what it says to do, "Believe God", and not the doctrines of the Pharisees, because they sit on a intimate object, as a higher hope of serving the creation, above the word of God.
Christ said in response to those who look to that which is seen, as that which is permanent .....But all their works they do for to be seen of men:
3) Moses transmitted the 10 commandments and the laws to the people. Was Moses invisible? The point is that God can exercise His infallible authority through fallible men
God can effect a work of faith ,coming from a donkey which is used as a type to represent an unbeliever, but we are never to attribute the authority to hear God, by a creature
Also, I Timothy 3:15 is clear that the church is the pillar and ground of truth.
Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
The point is, don't bear false witness against God, by insisting that He did not set up human authorities, and that He is too weak to do that.
The church is the steward or caretaker of the gospel, not the author or finisher, as the effecter thereof. Our Living God, is not to weak to set up a human authority, He simply has no need to, with Him is all the strength and authority needed to perform the will He purposes, with Him we can do all the things He appoints to us, without Him we can do nothing.
Apr 27 09 9:05 AM
May 6 09 5:13 PM
Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me. Job 38:3 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto Me. Job 40:7 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; Luke 12:35
May 6 09 5:44 PM
A few questions:
1) In John 20/21, Jesus told Peter "feed my lambs, feed my sheep, etc." Was Peter invisible at the time He said that?
3) Moses transmitted the 10 commandments and the laws to the people. Was Moses invisible?
The point is that God can exercise His infallible authority through fallible men.
And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40
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