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Posts: 1636
Member Since: 08/15/07
Oct 29 09 3:54 PM
Sapling
Posts: 2053
Member Since: 12/07/05
Oct 30 09 4:57 AM
Eggplant
GHSTHA wrote: I believe that we have been given gifts and that we need to use them for His glory.
Posts: 5783
Member Since: 02/19/08
Oct 30 09 5:13 AM
Exactly. But that's where the anti-Catholics claim we believe in a works-based salvation. Funny, Loose Nut himself posted this.
Posts: 760
Member Since: 11/27/07
Oct 30 09 8:47 AM
Loose Nut wrote: Exactly. But that's where the anti-Catholics claim we believe in a works-based salvation. Funny, Loose Nut himself posted this. What is so funny about it, That is not working for salvation! Loose Nut
Oct 30 09 10:32 AM
Posts: 3126
Member Since: 06/08/06
Oct 30 09 10:52 AM
Lifes a Beach
Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love.
Oct 30 09 10:55 AM
Loose Nut wrote: It is not my works, but Jesus working through me! Loose Nut
Oct 30 09 11:22 AM
Aren't I a great Christian? Don't I just ooze with Christ and leave you as a better happier, more fulfilled person? Aren't I raising the bar for everyone by doing that? Now maybe you have a slight clue as what demented arrogant non-Christian assholes you and Garee behave like.
Oct 30 09 11:48 AM
Oct 30 09 2:00 PM
No I'm not, I'm just illustrating the the kind of person that you are. Jim
Oct 30 09 6:46 PM
JR Mugz wrote: I'm sure since it's prefectly OK for Loose Nut and Garee to lie about Catholics; it's OK for us to lie about them. Let's play by their rules for a while. Jim
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Member Since: 12/03/06
Oct 31 09 4:51 AM
Hi Chooselife,
Exactly. But that's where the anti-Catholics claim we believe in a works-based salvation.
We claim that because you confess an infused grace, coming from a ECF based theology and not imputed grace by which we can Know God and therfore can be friends with God, based on the same spirit faith, that comes from hearing the word of God. The problem is as it seems to me ,you have choosen another authority(your sect) by which you devive another gospel other than the one gospel we recieve by hearing and that particular hearing by the devine living words of God.
A good place is to go back to the beginning where the foundational law was first annulled. Back to Genesis. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die Gen 3:4
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:23
Obviously this is another of the many "laws" that has been annulled after the oral tradition of men, coming after the commandments of men that Christ spoke of intensively of throughout His earthly ministry to the apostate Jews, who had become an authority unto themselves comparing themselves by and to themselves as a higher law than, as it is written
The eternal law stands today as it stood from since the beginning, when the Spirit of Christ spoke the words of God, to Adam that were usurped by the father of lies
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die Gen 3:4
Personally I never heard of working for a free gift as a doctrine found in the Book of the "law", the Bible.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Rom 4:4
But there is a law that shows that kind of attempt to infuse wonderful works as the way, the truth, the life of becoming a friend of God by which we can know Him as a friend.. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:22
Infused or imputed, we cannot serve two masters, can we? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Jam 2:23
Oct 31 09 6:09 AM
JR Mugz wrote: I'm sure since it's prefectly OK for Loose Nut and Garee to lie about Catholics; it's OK for us to lie about them. Let's play by their rules for a while. Jim Hm. Where did we lie about them?
Oct 31 09 7:47 AM
Loose Nut wrote: JR Mugz wrote: I'm sure since it's prefectly OK for Loose Nut and Garee to lie about Catholics; it's OK for us to lie about them. Let's play by their rules for a while. Jim Hm. Where did we lie about them? CLA Where did you not lie about them? Loose Nut
Oct 31 09 10:09 AM
chooselifealways wrote: Loose Nut wrote: JR Mugz wrote: I'm sure since it's prefectly OK for Loose Nut and Garee to lie about Catholics; it's OK for us to lie about them. Let's play by their rules for a while. Jim Hm. Where did we lie about them? CLA Where did you not lie about them? Loose Nut I'm from Missouri, LN. You gotta show me.
Oct 31 09 1:55 PM
I'm from Missouri, LN. You gotta show me.
Oct 31 09 6:26 PM
Hi Chooselifealways and GHSTA
I thought you guys where residents of Vatican City.? Well any way I'm an ambassador from the city called the New Jerusalem (not of here ) , the mother of all Christians, and my heavenly Holy Father says in regard to defining His grace in the verse below to those who dwell in His city as residents of Christ, where believing God is seeing....
What does your holy, holy, holy …. Venerated father who dwells in the Vatican City say, since he is after another authority, as the "it" that teaches you according to which city you abide in? Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Rom 4:4 3408 misthos {mis-thos'}
apparently a primary word; TDNT - 4:695,599; n m
AV - reward 24, hire 3, wages 2; 29
1) dues paid for work 1a) wages, hire 2) reward: used of the fruit naturally resulting from toils and endeavours 2a) in both senses, rewards and punishments 2b) of the rewards which God bestows, or will bestow, upon good deeds and endeavours 2c) of punishments
Has the sin dept, as a eternal law been reduced to a short stay in purgatory, as the final rewarder that can cleanse us, according to your personnel holy father/abba?
Oct 31 09 6:34 PM
I thought you guys where residents of Vatican City.?
Well any way I'm an ambassador from the city called the New Jerusalem (not of here ) ,
and my heavenly Holy Father says in regard to defining His grace in the verse below to those who dwell in His city as residents of Christ, where believing God is seeing.... What does your holy, holy, holy …. Venerated father who dwells in the Vatican City say, since he is after another authority, in a high place? Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Rom 4:4
What does your holy, holy, holy …. Venerated father who dwells in the Vatican City say, since he is after another authority, in a high place? Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Rom 4:4
Nov 1 09 12:09 PM
No, we are residents of the U.S.A.
Not talking about natural man born of women spiritually separated from the Kingdom of God from birth, as new creatures in Christ, our citizenship is not of here, we are born from above.
You're from Jerusalem?
Yes, the city on a hill whose light of the gospel cannot be hid by the oral traditions of men,its the same city, as the mother of all sects Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
I don't see that in the verse below.
You don't see that the reward of good works is not connected or obtained as infused grace, and in the end of the matter it is imputed as a reward of Christ's work of faith, labor of His love alone, working in us to both will and do the good pleasure of God??
The verse is very clear…. I believe it becomes, can a person pour new wine (the Spirit of grace) into old wineskin (these bodies of death) which seems to be the confusion regarding this verse.
The work we do is not reckoned of grace in any way shape or form, "it", the work of believing God is the normal requirement for obeying the voice of the Spirit of Christ, as our reasonable service. Remember to be full of Grace, is to be full of unmerritted favor, the more grace the more favor is needed to pay the wage.If a person is not full of the grace of God he will be required to pay the remaining wage which again has not been reduced to firery lake purgatory, as the final mediator that can cleanse us, as to what Christ could not perform, through His labor of love alone.
Grace comes when we fall from that position, it alone causes us to trun to His voice, that we can repent for no man can come to heaven unless the Father enable Him by His free gift of grace which He imputes to us..
Do you have to work for a free gift ?
You will have to clarify that further garee. You have a few things going on in that sentence.
The wages of sin according to the eternal law of God have never been changed or reduced to reflect a doctrine called infused grace, where man might make partial payment for the dept, as the wages due. Either Christ has paid the dept in full, or the full wage is still due.
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Nov 8 09 9:50 AM
OK Roman Catholics what do you get from this one?
Matt 13:1-8 1 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop-- a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. (NIV)
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